"Shane Moore" (snakesm13)
09/26/2020 at 21:58 • Filed to: None | 0 | 39 |
Ok so I sold my Wrangler to a coworker who wants to tow it behind his RV. Don’t worry I made a profit for Mods to go into the Veloster. But here is the procedure in the manual of how to flat tow:
Jeep Wrangler Flat Towing
The Jeep Wrangler is one of the few vehicles built specifically to be flat towed and it does terrific in that role. Flat towing a TJ Jeep Wrangler is fairly simple, but it’s critical that you have everything set up properly before you roll. Note that the transfer case must be shifted into Neutral (N) and that the transmission MUST be placed in gear (I like to place mine in second gear) so that the transmission can be lubricated while the Jeep is being towed (your transmission will burn up if you don’t). According to the owner’s manual, here are the steps for flat towing a TJ Jeep Wrangler:
Depress the brake pedal
Depress the clutch pedal
Shift the transfer case into N (Neutral)
Start engine
Place manual transmission into gear (second or third gear are the most popular. Don’t make the mistake of putting it into Neutral as this will prevent the transmission from being lubricated and it will burn up while being towed.) For automatics, place the transmission into park (P).
Release brake pedal to ensure no movement
Shut engine off and place the ignition key into the unlocked OFF position (this allows the steering wheel to turn while being towed).
Apply parking brake
Attach Jeep to tow vehicle
Release parking brake
Now am I missing something fundamental in step 5? If you are putting the transfer case in neutral how is putting the transmission in gear going to lubricate it? What am I missing Oppo?
Probably just going to set it up like this.
onlytwowheels
> Shane Moore
09/26/2020 at 22:10 | 1 |
https://tremec-blog.com/how-to-prevent-manual-transmission-damage-while-flat-towing/
jminer
> Shane Moore
09/26/2020 at 22:11 | 1 |
You’re right, if the transfer case is in neutral the transmission shouldn’t turn at all. Maybe the transmission goes in gear in case the transfer case slips out of neutral.
shop-teacher
> Shane Moore
09/26/2020 at 22:12 | 0 |
I was thinking the same thing. I dunno.
Just Jeepin'
> Shane Moore
09/26/2020 at 22:14 | 0 |
Here’s the explanation I’ve seen:
You put the transmission into gear to prevent it from turning. Even with the transfer case in neutral, some vehicles will have some friction in the transfer case which will drive the transmission.
Putting it into gear (manual) or park (auto) prevents it from turning.
Shane Moore
> Just Jeepin'
09/26/2020 at 22:30 | 0 |
Interesting but why would it way to keep it lubricated and why would the transmission gear ratio matter 1st vs 2nd or 3rd?
66P1800inpieces
> Shane Moore
09/26/2020 at 22:31 | 5 |
Because I had to know; the new Bronco is flat towable.
Just Jeepin'
> Shane Moore
09/26/2020 at 22:33 | 1 |
Regarding lubrication, it might be simply phrased badly: it’s not that it won’t get lubrication in neutral, it’s that it won’t get lubrication at all, but neutral allows it to turn without lubrication.
Anyway, this is clearly Hhf p territory. Hopefully he ch im es in.
Shane Moore
> Just Jeepin'
09/26/2020 at 22:36 | 1 |
Oh man that does make more sense.
Beefchips
> Shane Moore
09/26/2020 at 22:38 | 1 |
Hang in, so explain to me why I’m wrong. I believed that the transmission should be in gear so that the back half of it moves, to splash oil up through the moving parts?
Shane Moore
> Beefchips
09/26/2020 at 22:44 | 0 |
But why would the back end be spinning if the transfercase is in neutral? Don’t both driveshafts attach to the transfercase? I had that thought too then I took a look under there and thought it looked that way.
SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
> Shane Moore
09/26/2020 at 22:45 | 4 |
You want the internal gearing in the transmission stationary. I can’t think of any reason NOT to put it it First, for that matter. That means the input shaft of the transfer case is also fixed in place for the duration of the trip.
The internal structure of the Transfer Case must allow adequate bearing lubrication on the output side, which obviously DOES spin. I’m sensitive to this issue, since a Land Cruiser generally can NOT be towed like this. Which sucks. And makes the total advantages list of Jeep ownership over LC ownership exactly one item long.
Beefchips
> Shane Moore
09/26/2020 at 22:50 | 0 |
You see how ignorant I am :) so maybe I get it now: the transfer case is getting some spin from the driveshafts. It could transfer some of this to the transmission. Staying in gear in the tranny uses the engine to keep the transmission from spinning, preventing friction/burning.
What about burning out the transfer case? Less friction there?
Shane Moore
> SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
09/26/2020 at 22:50 | 1 |
Great explanation just like I said to JJ I never thought (also it didn’t read) that it would transfer any friction to the transmission.
Shane Moore
> Beefchips
09/26/2020 at 22:58 | 0 |
Yeah it worded poorly in the instructions but you are correct. Some sort of friction transferring to the transmission and putting it in gear prevents motion. I assume the transfercase is getting enough lubrication from both driveshafts spinning.
Beefchips
> Shane Moore
09/26/2020 at 23:18 | 0 |
Oh gotcha yeah I’ve never towed... also never had a vehicle w a transfer case! :)
SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
> Shane Moore
09/27/2020 at 00:51 | 0 |
Fortunately the driveshafts on an FJ80 aren’t that hard to pull. But it would be easier just to slip the T/C into Neutral and take off...
Goggles Pizzano
> SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
09/27/2020 at 03:07 | 1 |
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
> jminer
09/27/2020 at 09:52 | 1 |
you can get some fluid coupling and freewheeling on the input shaft, transmitting energy back into the transmission.
SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
> Shane Moore
09/27/2020 at 09:55 | 0 |
BTW, I’m a little weirded out by that hitch-mount set-up on the Lexus. Any kind of tongue loading is going to put some torsional “twist” on those two rods.
And, under heavy braking, it’s anybody’s guess which direction the ball will be pointing after the Lexus gets passed by the Jeep. You might get by towing it home on a sidestreet at 15MPH, but I wouldn’t count on it to rigidly transmit lots of force when you really needed it to. YMMV
Shane Moore
> SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
09/27/2020 at 11:04 | 1 |
Haha a buddy of mine sent me that to me. Not sure if he captured it or someone else but I would not put it in service that’s for sure.
Ermahgerd!
> Shane Moore
09/27/2020 at 12:48 | 0 |
Something doesn’t smell right here. If the transfer case is in neutral, would the transmission even turn when being towed? I can’ t imagine it would if automatics should be in park.
Shane Moore
> Ermahgerd!
09/27/2020 at 13:13 | 1 |
I think the consensus is the following from Just Jeepin’ and others:
Even with the transfer case in neutral, some vehicles will have some friction in the transfer case which will drive the transmission. Putting it into gear (manual) or park (auto) prevents it from turning.
I read the original instructions the opposite, that it needed to be in gear in order to keep it spinning not to prevent it.
ClassicDatsunDebate
> Shane Moore
09/27/2020 at 13:22 | 2 |
It’s easier for the drive gears in the manual transmission to turn via friction in lower gears because of the mechanical advantage of the gear ratio. At higher gears (closer to synchronized ratio) , it takes more torque to move the drive gears
ClassicDatsunDebate
> Shane Moore
09/27/2020 at 13:49 | 0 |
Ok, after looking at the diagrams and thinking about it for a bit, here’s my theory...
If the transmission is in neutral and the transfer case is in neutral, the input shaft would be turning because the clutch is engaged but the countershaft would not be turning. That means the countershaft gears aren’t providing splash lubrication to the input shaft bearings. All the oil would be in the sump and unable to reach the input shaft, causing the bearings to fail from lack of lubrication. If it’s in gear, the input shaft would be turning the counter shaft, whose gears are in the sump, providing splash lubrication to the bearings above.
ClassicDatsunDebate
> Ermahgerd!
09/27/2020 at 13:51 | 1 |
The input shaft is turning because the clutch is engaged.
ClassicDatsunDebate
> SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
09/27/2020 at 13:52 | 0 |
The reason to keep it in gear is to lubricate the input shaft bearing, I reckon.
SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
> ClassicDatsunDebate
09/27/2020 at 15:26 | 1 |
No, if it’s in gear and the transmission is turning? That means the engine’s turning.... which you most definitely do not want.
No, the transfer case input shaft, the transmission output shaft, the transmission input shaft, the pressure plate, the flywheel... and the crankshaft... are all stationary. The reason to keep the transmission in gear is to ensure that’s the case for the duration of the trip.
The Jeep transfer case clearly has enough internal lubrication to keep the appropriate bearing surfaces protected as the output shaft free-wheels and the internal shaft is fixed in place.
ClassicDatsunDebate
> SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
09/27/2020 at 15:29 | 1 |
ah yes, the engine is not running, dur.
ClassicDatsunDebate
> ClassicDatsunDebate
09/27/2020 at 15:30 | 0 |
Ignore me. The engine isn’t running.
VincentMalamute-Kim
> SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
09/27/2020 at 15:45 | 1 |
Someone actually sweated the details of the so-called “hitch” that looks like it can only hold the weight of the ball mount and the ball. Barely.
I can only
assume it’s supposed to be joke?
SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
> VincentMalamute-Kim
09/27/2020 at 15:54 | 1 |
Hope so. These days you just don’t know...
EdR
> Shane Moore
09/27/2020 at 20:48 | 0 |
Hopeful that the Pic is a joke. Anyway, the tcase always goes in neutral to disconnect it from the drive train. However, a small amount of kinetic energy is still transferred into the transmission, which would cause it to spin and because of no oil being moved through it, to burn up the bearings. On a manual, what is the most likely gear to be worn out and to pop back out into neutral? 1st gear. Thus we don't want to put it there. Instead, put it into the less often worn out 2nd or 3rd (I like 2nd don't ask me why just what I've always used) to keep the trans from spinning, and then hook and book. I put multiple thousands of miles on my TJ hooked behind my truck like this, never an issue. Just remember the part about unlocking the steering or you'll be unpleasantly surprised when you turn!
EdR
> SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
09/27/2020 at 21:02 | 0 |
Jeep 231 case throws oil from spinning and keeps it well lubricated no issues.
Freggie
> Shane Moore
09/28/2020 at 02:06 | 0 |
Manual transmission uses splash lubrication for the gears, no pump. Even with transfer case in neutral there is a chance of spinning the output shaft of the transmission through some friction - fluid friction . Spinning the output shaft can burn up these bearings. Putting into 2nd or 3rd makes it harder or not likely to spin the input shaft since it’ll have to so spin the engine - won’t happen . Automatic works differently and putting in park engaged the parking pawl and “lock” the output shaft. If the output shaft spins on automatic then you’ll burn up clutches since no fluid is flowing through the system.
I hav e a transfer case off and with the transfer case in neutral, spinning the transfer case input shaft, both output shafts will spin - where driveshafts connects. So if all tires are spinning the input shaft can turn and burn up input shaft bearings
Tripper
> Shane Moore
09/28/2020 at 09:04 | 1 |
Lol paging Borsq on that hitch
Victorinoo
> Shane Moore
09/28/2020 at 10:11 | 0 |
For automatics you stated to place it into Park. The wheels will not turn if you place the automatic in Park. Edit - Never mind I see that you placed transfer case into neutral.
Shane Moore
> Victorinoo
09/28/2020 at 13:52 | 0 |
Ha, you don’t know how may times in my research I talked my self into and out of how it should work.
HammerheadFistpunch
> SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
09/28/2020 at 18:13 | 0 |
Its always bugged me a little the cruisers can’t be flat towed if for no reason other than recovery. but as you said, pulling the driveshafts isn’t that hard.
ibRAD
> Shane Moore
09/29/2020 at 16:42 | 1 |
You had me worried for a moment.